Home
Reviews
Brands
CANYON Reviews
CANYON Grail:ON CF 8 Review

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Electric Bike Review

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Battery Charging Port Bosch Powertube 500 Locking Core

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Bosch Performance Line Speed Motor 4th Generation

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Double Decker Carbon Fiber Handlebar

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Bosch Purion Display

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 11 Speed Shimano Grx 11 42 Tooth Cassette

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Schwalbe G One 28 2 Tires

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Carbon Fiber Integrated Stem And Double Decker Handlebar With Grip Tape

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Double Bottle Cage Options Rear Fender Mounts

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Fizik Argo Tempo Saddle On Splayed Suspension Seatpost

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Rigid Carbon Fiber Fork 12mm Thru Axle

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Shimano Grx Rx810 Hydraulic Disc Brakes 160mm

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 4 Amp Fast Charger From Bosch

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Bosch 4 Amp Standard Ebike Charger

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Tapered Steer Tube 118 114 Inch

Canyon Grail On Cf 8 Stock High Step Blue

A high performance gravel ebike with carbon fiber frame, fork, and iconic double decker drop bar that introduces comfort and varied body positions. Sturdy 12mm thru-axles, tapered steer tube, and powerful Shimano ICE-Tech hydraulic disc brakes. This ebike is produced in seven frame sizes, but only four were in stock at the time of this review.
Available in multiple geographies, this ebike ships with a 4th generation Bosch Performance Line CX motor in Europe or Performance Line Speed motor in the US offering Class 3 28mph performance. Both motors are known for reliability, responsiveness, and power. Combined with the internally mounted Bosch PowerTube 500, the bike looks great and weight is positioned low and center for optimal handling.
Gravel specific Shimano GRX derailleur with one-way clutch to reduce chain bounce, a wide 11-42 tooth cassette for navigating varied terrain, and a narrow-wide chainring to reduce drops. Double bottle cage mounts are great, nice optional rear mudguard... but no front mudguard option from CANYON. Faster Bosch 4 amp standard charger included.
Direct sales only, and shipping costs $150 to $200 extra. Many sizes for the CF 8 were sold out and the upgraded eTap version had even less at the time of this review. Battery locking core and charge port are positioned low on the non-drivetrain side of the bike, tempting you to either lean the bike up or lay it down on the derailleur side... Basic Bosch Purion display is not compatible with Bosch smartphone apps and does not offer USB charging.

Make:

CANYON

Model:

Grail:ON

Price:

$5,799 ($6,999 for eTap Electronic Shifting Version)

Body Position:

Forward, Forward Aggressive

Suggested Use:

Urban, Road

Electric Bike Class:

Speed Pedelec (Class 3)

Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

6 Year Limited Warranty for First Owner Direct Purchaser

Availability:

United States

Model Year:

2022

Total Weight:

37.3 lbs (16.91 kg)

Battery Weight:

6.4 lbs (2.9 kg)

Motor Weight:

6.3 lbs (2.85 kg)

Frame Material:

Carbon Fiber

Frame Sizes:

432 in (1097.28 cm)462 in (1173.48 cm)492 in (1249.68 cm)522 in (1325.88 cm)552 in (1402.08 cm)582 in (1478.28 cm)612 in (1554.48 cm)

Geometry Measurements:

Medium 522mm: 20.25" Seat Tube, 16.5" Reach, 21.25" Top Tube, 32.25" Stand Over Height, 37" Minimum Saddle Height, 41" Maximum Saddle Height, 20.25" Width, 41.5" Wheelbase, 70" Length

Frame Types:

High-Step

Frame Colors:

Matte Blue with Matte Black Accents

Frame Fork Details:

Canyon FK0064 Rigid Carbon Fiber, 100mm Hub Spacing, 12mm Thru-Axle with Quick Release

Frame Rear Details:

Boost 148mm Hub Spacing, 12mm Thru-Axle with Quick Release

Attachment Points:

Two Bottle Cage Bosses, Mudguard Mounts (Front and Rear)

Gearing Details:

11 Speed 1x11 Shimano GRX RX812 Derailleur with One-Way Clutch, Shimano Deore XT M8000 11-42 Tooth Cassette

Shifter Details:

Shimano GRX RX810 Paddles on Right (Brake Lever Integrated, Small Lever for High Shifts, Brake and Small Lever for Low Shifts)

Cranks:

FSA CK-702 Gen4, 170mm or 175mm Crank Arms, CNRI FSA 44 Tooth Narrow-Wide Chainring BOSH Gen4 Spider Boost, FSA Aluminum Alloy Guard

Pedals:

No Pedals Included

Headset:

Internal, Sealed Bearings, Tapered 1-1/8" to 1-1/4"

Stem:

Proprietary Aerodynamic Design, Handlebar Integrated, Aluminum Alloy, 120mm Forward Extension, One 5mm Spacer, One 10mm Spacer

Handlebar:

Canyon CP07 Gravelcockpit, Carbon Fiber, Ergonomic Shape, 70mm Reach, 130mm Drop

Brake Details:

Shimano GRX RX810 Hydraulic Disc with 160mm ICE-Tech Freeza Rotors, GRX Dual-Piston Calipers with Heat Dissipating Blades, GRX Four-Finger Drop Bar Levers with Hoods

Grips:

Rubberized Grip Tape Wrap

Saddle:

Fizik Argo Tempo, Short Nose and Cutout

Seat Post:

Canyon S15 VCLS 2.0 Carbon Fiber, 25/13mm Setback (Splayed Design for Vibration Dampening)

Seat Post Length:

350 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

27.2 mm

Rims:

DT Swiss HG 1800 Spline, Aluminum Alloy, 622x24, 28 Hole

Spokes:

Stainless Steel, Bladed, DT Aero Comp Wide Straightpull, Black with Nipples

Tire Brand:

Schwalbe G-One, 28" x 2.0" 50-622

Wheel Sizes:

28 in (71.12cm)

Tire Details:

45 to 65 PSI, 2.5 to 4.5 BAR, Bite (Designed for Off-Road Use), TLE (Tubeless Easy)

Tube Details:

Presta Valve, Long Stem

Accessories:

Rubberized Sticker Slap Guard

Other:

Locking Removable Downtube-Integrated Battery Pack, 1.7lb 4 Amp Charger, Maximum Cadence > 120 RPM Motor Support, Locking Core (ABUS or AXA)

Motor Brand:

Gen 4 Bosch Performance Line Speed

Motor Type:

Mid-Mounted Geared Motor

Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

250 watts

Motor Peak Output:

600 watts

Motor Torque:

85 Newton meters (Eco: 40, Tour: 50, Sport: 60, Turbo: 85)

Battery Brand:

Bosch PowerTube 500 3200Ma 18650 Cells

Battery Voltage:

36 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

13.4 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

482.4 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

4 hours

Estimated Min Range:

25 miles (40 km)

Estimated Max Range:

65 miles (105 km)

Display Type:

Bosch Purion, Fixed, 1.75" Backlit Grayscale Display, Buttons: Power, +, -, Walk, (Hold - to Cycle Through Readouts, Hold - and Press Power to Change Units, Hold + and - to Reset Trip, Hold + to Activate Lights if Available)

Readouts:

Current Speed, Assist Level (Eco, Tour, Sport or eMTB, Turbo), Battery Level (1-5), Odometer, Trip Distance, Total Distance, Estimated Range, Lights Icon

Display Accessories:

Micro-USB Port for Diagnostics and Software Updates Only

Drive Mode:

Advanced Pedal Assist (Measures Rear Wheel Speed, Pedal Cadence, and Pedal Torque over 1,000x Per Second, Power Output Relative to Pedal Input: Eco 60%, Tour 140%, Sport 240%, Turbo 340%)

Top Speed:

28 mph (45 kph)

Hide Advanced Search

Search Now

Make or Model

Model Year

Body Position

Suggested Use

Frame Type

Drive Mode

Availability

Price Range

$0 (0 €)$18,000 (16,920 €)

Total Weight

0 lbs (0 kg)227 lbs (103 kg)

Top Speed

0 mph (0.0 km/hr)50 mph (80.5 km/hr)

Battery Watt Hrs

0 watt3,456 watt

Frame Size

0 in (0.00 cm)432 in (1,097.28 cm)

Motor Power

0 Newton meters250 Nm

Trusted Advertisers

This review was provided for free, but BOSCH provided two nights of free hotel stay in Vail, Colorado so that I could attend an event and test ride the bike. My goal is to be transparent and unbiased with you, this video and writeup are not meant to be an endorsement of CANYON products. I welcome your corrections, additions, and feedback in the comments below, and the CANYON electric bike forums.

Observations:

This was my first time reviewing a CANYON product, and I was very impressed with the range of sizes and quality of components. CANYON is a German company that has been around for many years and sells direct. The Grail:ON is an electric version of the Grail gravel bike, which stands out for its unique double decker carbon fiber drop bars.
The Grail:ON comes in two flavors, and the CF 8 is the more affordable $5,799 USD model. If you pay extra for the eTap model, priced at $6,999, you get a SRAM drivetrain with electronic shifting and DT Swiss HGR 1400 carbon fiber rims that are lighter and more aerodynamic. The eTap model comes in a champagne metallic tan color with black accents vs. metallic blue with black accents here. Both models ship with the Bosch Performance Line CX motors in Europe, but are upgraded to Bosch Performance Line Speed motors for faster Class 3 performance in the USA.

Pros:

Beautiful frame, fork, stem, and handlebar design. The custom stem and double decker handlebar integration almost look like a triathlon bike with aerodynamic qualities… and the bike is extremely lightweight at 37.3lbs (16.9kg) for the Medium that I tested (with aftermarket platform pedals).
Sturdy 12mm thru-axles front and rear add strength for off-road use, it’s exactly what I’d expect for a quality gravel grinder and I love that they use quick release maxles. The tapered steer tube gives more options for upgrading the fork to something like Lauf.
When I first saw the seven frame sizes, I was floored! They even offer different wheel sizes to suit the frames (700c vs. 650b on the 2XS through Small) and different crank arm lengths (175mm vs. 170 on the 2XS through Small). However, three sizes were out of stock… I specifically asked the CANYON rep about this and he confirmed that they do actually produce seven sizes, but that many are only available in limited quantity and can sell out quickly.
Even though the brake rotors are just 160mm here vs. 180mm on some competing electric road bikes and gravel grinders, CANYON chose Shimano ICE-Tech with aluminum carriers, carbon steel rotors, and calipers with heat dissipating fins. The design of the rotors circulates air and is designed to stay very cool. So, you get high performance without as much weight. The smaller size is less likely to get bent or dirty since it doesn’t stick out so far.
The entire Bosch drive system (battery, charger, motor etc.) are UL certified and Bosch is the only company to have achieved this level for their ebike systems from what I understand. That means reliability and quality, which is especially nice on a high priced, high speed, performance ebike like the Grail:ON.
My understanding is that the tires chosen for this model are off-road specific, and may guard against punctures a bit. They are also TLE (tubeless easy), so you can reduce some weight and ride at lower pressure if you decide to remove the tubes and add some sealant.
Nice bladed spokes and upgraded aluminum alloy rims reduce drag and weight, but the premium carbon fiber rims on the eTap are definitely a step up. I do wish that CANYON had been able to integrate the rear wheel speed sensor into the disc brake setup the way that BULLS and some other manufacturers have done, to keep the wheels balanced and reduce sensor read errors resulting from loose magnets and debris.
While I was not able to remove the battery from this ebike during my review, because it was not on hand with the reps who brought it to the event, it appeared that the cover and integration were done very well. Some covers add a lot of weight and can easily be taken, but that did not appear to be the case here. I cannot confirm, but I suspect that they were using an ABUS keyset that may offer keyed-alike compatibility for aftermarket folding locks etc. (double check, please comment here if you know, the CANYON rep I called did not know for sure).
The Gen 4 Bosch Performance Line Speed motors are smaller, lighter (6.3lbs vs. 8.8lbs), use standard sized chainrings vs. a reduction gear (so no drag here), deliver more power (85nm vs. 63nm of torque), and support over 120 RPM (pedal strokes per minute) compared to the Gen 3 motors, so they perform great all around and won’t struggle as you downshift in preparation for a climb. This is one of my favorite motors of all time.
I really appreciate the narrow-wide chainring that was chosen for this bike, because it really grips the chain and reduces the potential for drops when riding off-road. CANYON added an aluminum alloy chainring guard as well, so your pants won’t get dirty or snagged, and it acts as a bash guard to protect the chainring and chain.
The Bosch motor controller measures rear wheels speed, pedal cadence, and pedal torque over 1,000x per second for very fluid ride feel (even better for generation 4 here), and you also get shift detection, so the motor backs off a bit when it detects gear changes to reduce drivetrain wear.
The Bosch Purion display and integrated button pad lack some features and menus, but is very easy to read and understand. I found that it performed well during my test rides, and is a step above some competing displays from other companies.
Great attention to detail all around, comfortable grip tape, saddle, and they included a long rubberized slap guard on the right chain stay vs. letting the paint get chipped up. My favorite parts have to do with comfort, and that includes the carbon fiber double decker handlebar that introduces some flex and vibration dampening, along with the splayed carbon fiber seatpost that almost acts like a suspension post.
Excellent battery charger, Bosch has designed a compact, relatively lightweight (1.7lb) charger that delivers fast 4 amp charging and uses a durable proprietary plug interface that won’t get mixed up with other chargers in your house and also plugs into the battery and frame charging port without the use of a dongle… it’s one of my all time favorite chargers in the entire space. Some companies opt for the cheaper 2 amp charger from Bosch, but I’m glad CANYON did not, given the higher capacity 500 watt hour battery used here.

Cons:

While the stem and double decker handlebar save weight, look awesome, and might introduce some aerodynamic qualities, they are not adjustable and upgradable the same way that a standard stem and independent handlebar are. Good thing there are three hand positions to rotate through.
The lack of availability for all seven frame sizes frustrated me, maybe that has more to do with supply chain constraints during 2020/2021? Four sizes were available for the CF 8 while only two were available for the eTap at the time of this review.
Very high standover height on this frame, it’s only available in high step and the top tube isn’t sloped down very much. The splayed seat post offers some comfort, but it cannot go down as far and significantly raises the minimum saddle height. You could always swap it out for a rigid post, this is not an uncommon issue for seat post suspensions and may not be super relevant to riders who are seeking out such a sporty bike.
It costs $150 extra for standard ground shipping to the contiguous USA, or $200 for express. If you live in Hawaii, Alaska, or Puerto Rico, the price jumps way up to $650!
This is a direct to consumer electric bike, which means you cannot test ride it easily in shops… or get the same kind of fitting and post purchase support. Thankfully, since CAYNON chose Bosch drive systems for these models, many independent dealers will have the ability to help service the motor and provide battery replacement. The company also uses Shimano and Fazua drive systems on other electric bike products, which might not be as easy to service.
The bike doesn’t come with a kickstand, which I completely understand (weight savings, won’t introduce rattling), but it doesn’t have provisions for a stand either. Consider a clamp-on stand if you find that leaning the bike feels precarious when charging or storing.
Unlocking the battery pack or plugging it in to charge (while mounted to the bike) requires you to bend way down to the bottom bracket on the non-drivetrain side of the bike… This is the safest side of the bike to lay down in order to keep the derailleur from getting bent. Bosch, CANYON, and others should really consider putting the locking core and charge port on the drivetrain side, in my opinion. This ebike doesn’t have a kickstand, leaning it against a wall seems precarious (especially with a long cord attached for charging), and I dislike having to bend way down and stabilize the bike when plugging in. Removing the battery to charge separately is also possible, but that requires the key to unlock and then balance the bike and remove the battery which is actually more time consuming and difficult than just plugging in the charge cable. Do consider storing the battery separately to reduce exposure to extreme cold and heat, and maintain at least 50% when not in use for long periods.
CANYON opted for the lower capacity Bosch PowerTube 500 vs. the new 625 watt hour, so it costs less and isn’t as heavy, but won’t go as far and cannot maintain the higher speeds for as long. I’m not sure that you can upgrade to the PowerTube 625 because it’s physically longer… I suspect they use the 500 because it fit into the more compact frame size options.
As with most drop-bar electric bikes, the button pad is not reachable in all hand positions. I found it somewhat awkward to use when riding, and I wished that they chose the Kiox because it’s compact but has a USB charging port and is compatible with the Bosch smartphone application. You can upgrade to this and other displays for more money and some help from a local shop.
The Bosch Purion display does not have a battery percentage readout, average speed, max speed, or clock, and lacks the ability to connect with a heart rate monitors. At least it shows your range estimate in addition to the 5-bar battery capacity infographic… so you can plan your rides easier. Hold the – key to cycle through menus to see range. Despite being mounted near the grab points on the handlebar, there are some hand positions where it can be very difficult to reach.
I don’t think that the bike comes with pedals, perhaps they expect most people to use clip-in or buy their own, it’s a minor thing but worth mentioning, this is how many high-end bikes are sold.
As with most high powered ebikes, the motor drains the battery faster and produces more noise here. You can listen to the ride portions of the video review above to gauge this for yourself.

Useful Resources:

Official CANYON website
Official Warranty Details
Bosch 4th Gen Motors (including the Performance Line Speed)
Local CANYON bike shop directory to find a CANYON dealer near you for fitting and test rides

January 29, 2024 (10 months ago)

Jack

3 years ago

I love love love my Creo, but man, this bike is cool! Court, how loud would you say this is compared to the Creo? I would upgrade to the Kiox display for sure.

Court

Hi Jack! I’d love to test the both side-by-side, but my gut feeling is that the Bosch Performance Line Speed motor on the Grail:ON is louder. It’s a lot more powerful on paper, and in person. I love the Specialized SL motors because they are so light, and impressively powerful, but Bosch takes the win on power, weight, and noise with their offering ;)

Ebiker01

Great review and a very nice German carbon ebike for a great price imo. Question, is the display upgradeable to NYON? Also, your hard work to do this reviews, edit, etc… that should not be free! Ads and reputable reviews are worth a lot of $ for companies.

Hi Ebiker01! Great question… Yes, I feel pretty confident that the Bosch Purion display can be upgraded to Nyon. My friend owns a shop in Southern California and he has done this before. You would need to pay for the part and some service, but I think it’s possible. Perhaps you could contact a local Bosch ebike dealer to ask about ordering and installing :)

Yes, I appreciate your encouragement to get paid for the work done here. I do make some money from YouTube ads that automatically play, but I try to limit them to start and stop vs. the middle of videos because that’s annoying. I also make some money from shops that advertise their location here on our directory, and some bikes pay to be promoted. My goal is to keep the site clean and easy to use, not mislead people in any way. I want to be objective and balance the profit model with creating a nice space. Glad you enjoyed this review!

Gravel Rider

I’ve spent considerable time riding both the Grail:On and the Creo Expert Evo. I would say they have different, but partially overlapping strengths. They’re both fantastic machines fully comfortable on both tarmac and dirt. The Creo is a lighter, more svelte, a more road-oriented bike. The motor’s integration with peddling is incredibly smooth, even at the middle setting it’s sometimes hard to tell if it’s on, though turn it off and then you realize it definitely was! Riding without any power is a joy. The full power is less than the the Grail, but still considerable at the highest setting. In more tricky dirt, the bike seems less stable, partly given the tires are thinner than the Grail. The Creo also does not look like an e-bike, and only the keen eye will notice what it is. Alternately, the Grail:On looks like a bike from the near future. While the battery is well integrated into the down tube, it clearly reads electric bike. It’s heavier than the Creo, but still feels relatively light and maneuverable. I also find the the sitting position and cockpit configuration very comfortable. The fatter tires make the ride a bit softer and significantly better on rougher dirt. The motor is a blast… almost like riding a motorcycle at higher levels, and is really fun on steep climbs. The motor is louder than on the Creo and is not as smooth on its power application. So, if you want a go anywhere at anytime bike, particularly if your focus is more off road, I think the Canyon is the better choice. If you want a beautifully engendered, state-of-the-art stealth e-bike that feels like a regular bike, the Creo is the better choice. In short, they’re both great but are targeted as slightly different use cases.

Excellent feedback, I agree with you and appreciate you taking the time to share this here with us! You’re an excellent writer :)

LARRY HINES

I have a friend with the Creo Comp ($6k range not $9.5k), and it’s a beautiful bike. Rides very easy. I choose the Canyon Grail on cf8 for the options it offers for different riding possibilities, (came with peddles fyi, that I won’t use). First ride was 60.5 miles ended with 2 bars left on the battery. I kept it on eco thru out with a few steep inclines to test how long battery would last on a full charge. Bike is a medium I’m 5’8″ fits perfect. This bike comes with top 800 series GRX no skimping on parts. Great build quality. This my 3rd e-bike (I think I may have an addiction).

I would like to change display to Cobi or Nylon not sure what it will take or possible. If anyone knows how or if possible I would like to hear. Also is possible to put on 48 tooth front sprocket on the GRX?

Ge

2 years ago

Hi, I spoke with a rep from Bosch and she says if it is a performance line speed motor paired with a Purion display it IS upgradable to Nyon system. That would be really nice to be able to set your assist levels for each 4 assist modes is I believe how that works. But, she said it is not compatible with the PLS motors with the Smart System (and another app ebike flow app) and display and assist control. Really sad the new display and pad look like something that should come on a neophyte’s bike or the many pedestrian bikes you see around and it is a brand new display and controller. Give them a call I was surprised how helpful they were for technical questions when I ask for someone that was…

You’re right on, Ge! The last generation of ebike systems from Bosch was considered Generation 1 (even though it had four generations within it) and they were compatible with the eBike Connect smartphone app with limited features (map, ride tracker, heart rate). The new Generation 2 is called Smart System and uses a different charger, battery, and motors (even though the motors are basically the same from what I can tell, they just have a new communication system and work with the eBike Flow app). The new app lets you adjust assist levels and provides more feedback to brands who can make their own branded apps.

Hi I posted a long winding comment on the YT video so I won’t go on, but the stand over for the bike you were on is really stand-over that would usually be a size larger because their size medium measures out that way. If you go to the website and put in your height and inseam it will put you on a size small at 5’9″/175mm tall. I know you said it was the only one they had for you to try.

So, no big deal when you get a size small to test? Actually it is a really big deal because the chainstays are too short to run anything except a 650b on (2xs,xs and “small” sizes). (I spent a bit of time with them on the phone and emails and they were very helpful with technical details.) Too bad for anyone that wants to have a normal size medium e-gravel bike because this carbon bike at the price would be a category winner. So not sure where who the design engineers are but pretty sure they are all ginormous… 🙄

Interesting, that’s great feedback Ge! Thanks for chiming in about the wheel size constraint of the smaller frame. Perhaps I’d go with a Medium and adjust the stem or handlebar if needed. The Grail:ON was pretty cool in many respects, I’m sure it’s a challenge to build a range of frames that all work with the standard motor and battery length. I have seen other companies change wheel size for the smaller frames, along with stem, handlebar, and even crank arm length.

Agreed but they should not call 5’9″ tall a size small and slap a 650b wheel on it even though many even are crazy enough to run 650b wheels on everything now in many cases. Not that I hate 275er’s. Myself and one other guy in the United States many years ago were the first persons to test bikes built (specifically the original Ibis Mojo), for smaller wheels with 650bs. Even started calling them 275ers for the first time. But we also were recommending folks to try them starting at a smaller height and getting them off of the freakin 26″ wheel endo standard. Then at around 5’9″ (and even 5’7″) trying 29er’s. Everyone is different.

Regardless, thanks for the awesome review I ordered the model in the 522st/577tt “medium” because there was no other choice to get a decent wheel size. Just glad they measure center to top on the seat tube as SOP like everyone. I assume center to center of course on the tt. In was annoying that they do not fill out the graph of angles in the geo schematic like almost all other manufactures do so you can easily see where they measure from. The more I have read about them the with various reviews the more I see their size designations being called into question by review experts. Oh well, will be nice to have 30 days to check if it will work. Because the rest of the spec at this price point blows the door off of anything else by ~ a grand.

Ge Hu

Hi the best workups as always, you have helped me buy a bike before with all your test. I don’t remember which one now but it was one of my many Giant ebikes. Anyway quick important note for those in the 5’9″ range you have the geometry with a minimum size height as 37″ but according to the website and what you must have adjusted your seat height close to during the test the minimum listed on their site Minimum Saddle Height of 28″/713mm with a max as 32″/813mm in size “medium” vs the 37″ & 41″ posted here.

Can I ask you since we are the same height and I am trying to figure out how high the seat would be for me from your video review, what height do you like to set your seat at or how high was it set in this video? That actually would help me quite a bit decide. That and the fact the standover is just crazy bad with this missed sized bike.

Hi Ge, thanks for the compliment! I do my best here. Regarding saddle height, I tend to set it very high in order to get near full leg extension. Full can be dangerous with knees, and too short can also cause my knees pain, but I have a tall inseam, so my saddle is always pretty high… Unfortunately, I just don’t know how high. I set it manually for each bike and for many reviews.

Awesome! I hope the bike works well for you, I’d love to hear how you like it. When do you expect to get the bike, is it coming to a local shop or directly to you?

Hi again, for some reason you reply came in the email but did not show up in the feed so I thought I would reply this way: Could not find at a local shop except a shop I like a lot that does the Velofix delivery from them but it was very expensive. I should have it on Monday (ordered this past wed and it shipped the same day.)

While I have you on the line, I have an awesome egravel bike that has kinda snuck under the radar Giant REVOLT E+PRO. It does not have the clearance quite for 50mm tires but pretty close. What it does have that the gestapo Bosch motor doesn’t is easy chainstay trick speed tuning for the syncdrive pro 80nm motor. (I will probably use volspeed on the Grail:on). The Syndrive firmware that gives you 5/3 levels of assist. As well as a whisper quiet engine. (I have a brand new TRANCE X E+PRO 29 that is obviously geared differently because it is as noisy as my Shimano Steps 8000 but same yama motor as the revolt). Anyway, if you live near Denver (I am in Lakewood on Green Mountain), and want to borrow either of those 2 for a review feel free to look me up once we get back there in late May. That would be fun because you to do such great technical reviews.

I will post on the Grail a week or 2 I am pretty much a cynical old man. Not happy about the chainring being only 44t vs 47t on my revolt plus does not look like much room to just change it out even though it is boost. Was not too happy in the review video of the noise of the motor or cockpit either but had to at least try it (for the 30 days no questions at that incredible price for the features) because I really need another ebike.

Best regards, g